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Peter Murphy 04.11.02
Dust Spirals
interview by nathan thorin
Near the end of last year Movement caught Peter Murphy as he was in
the middle of recording his sixth solo album 'Dust'. He relayed the tale
of how he dropped the spectacle and picked up an acoustic guitar, thusly
finding a more intimate and vocaly driven way to engage his audience. The
'Just For Love' tour, his move to Turkey in 1992, and his growing creative
relationship with DJ/Sufi musician Mercan Dede all culminated in this
phenomenal new release that seems to be right on time.
We picked back up with Peter right where we left off in Montreal, and
talked with him about gearing up for the 'Dust' tour, how he found
creativity by removing himself from the picture, and world events since
then.
NT: Yeah, you were in the middle of recording 'Dust'.
PM: "Okay, right. I'm right in the same studio. I
got in a couple of days ago, and I'm very happy to have it under my belt.
I'm actually looking at breaking open the tracks and looking at elements
just before I go in to rehearse with the band, because I've got to really
have a good idea of some specific aspects that the band has got to know
about, and so I'm conversant with the music and all that. I call that
pre-production, I'm just in the studio listening back really."
So there's just a bit of a process dissecting the songs to make them
workable for the live show coming up?
"Well, there are elements that are, rythmically for
instance there are a lot of hand drums, acoustic hand drum elements, dubek?
and things like that which are emanantly playable. But then also there are
a couple wierd, as you can probably hear, like a lot of idiosyncratic
electronica elements that will be processed. So I'm just like picking that
apart and looking at what electronic elements I want to play live and what
needs to be run from a tape.
So the show's not going to be all run off of the tape, but I want to
introduce a bit of an electronica aspect there. So some of those very
skeletal percusive elements may be like a drone here or there. So I'm just
choosing some of those elements and extracting them from the mix. I'll
play them to the band before we start playing, so they will become very
good starting points and indications."
So are you happy with the new album?
"Very happy with it. It's kind of like I'm really
pleased to have finally got this one under my belt. I mean really though.
Because it's been kind of a bit of a start and stop process getting this
sixth album out. One, because I was with Red Ant, and it was after
'Cascade' and I didn't really have the right sort of feeling about stuff
that I was writing.
Allthough, I've all of that in the backlogu. But those were really good
songs, they were really great and I would have been happy if I had
actually been given the chance to finish recording them. That was after
the Bauhaus show in 1999, I got as far as booking the studio. I was in
London ready to go in, when that same day the news came in that Red Ant
had unfortunately gone into bankruptcy.
It was kind of like, oh my god, ya know? So in a way, in introspective, if
I had made that album it wouldn't have been Dust. And I'm sort of really
pleased about that in a way."
Yeah, we've been listening to it over the past week or so. Very nice! You
had talked some about how you had explored the subtle approach to your
lyrics last we talked, and I can really see what you mean by listening to
it.
"Right. Well lyrically it was very much made in the
same way that I would write, and that's ecclectic in itself. But I think
it was much more written, lyrically and all around, it was written quickly
and intuitively, and without too much... preconsideration. "
So more subconscious?
"No. Well I mean lyrics and making music is always
like that. Well you could say that anything written and created, whether
it's a piece of music, or a sclupture, or a painting requires that sort of
diving into the subconcious. Otherwise it's graphic art basically.
You know, but it was done in a way that was really freed up. Not shackled
with the usual sort of psychological stresses. You know, like I've got to
follow a path or this or that. It wasn't a duty or a labor. It was very
much a fluent and creative ten week period.
And actually... with my co-producer, I particularly made a point of making
an end point, so limiting the whole process to a ten week period of
writing, recording, and mixing. So when I came here, nothing was written.
No, no, that's a lie actually. I had written three songs in their
prototype form. Just For Love, No Home Without it's Sire, and Jungle Haze,
before in a period of about three days. Just after the Wild Birds tour,
here in Montreal. That was kind of my testing out what kind of creative
relationship I could get with Mercan. And that cemented my whole idea that
I should work with Mercan on this.
And then basically nothing was written and conscious at all, until we came
in here. I spent the first ten days of the recording process writing the
songs. So the songs were all written and ready, then it was a case of
sclupting and having musicians really playing with me with the defined
pieces. Rather than work it in a really ecclectic sort of approach where
you might have a whole backing track arrangement and you work the vocals
around that. This way it's centered around the voice and the singer and
the lyrical content, which was the platform off of which all the positions
were encouraged to complement really."
Excellent, sounds like you had a lot of fun this time.
"Well, it's a little bit boring talking about the
process really. But I guess it's interesting for readers. It's like, what
are you going to write about? It's like telling somebody about a dream you
had, you get the idea but when you talk about it it's like, 'So What?' But
it was terrifying!"
Well, it's definately interesting to get insights into anybodies creative
process, though it's as you say, you can't really convey the whole thing.
I think the music itself conveys the subtleties.
"Sure, that's the measure of success. When you look
back at a piece of writing you've made, or something you've written. When
you're reading it back, you the writer can sort of have a sense of whether
it carries an authentic view, or sense of your intent. And that's what you
measure you're own work by I guess. And then if it hasn't really achieved
that when you talk about your work, like in this situation I suppose now
when you're asking me. Well if I wasn't sure about whether or not I'd
acheived that I'd be almost being an apologist really. But in this case
not at all, what you're hearing is just the start, the first level of what
is in this album. You know what I mean? There is so much more there.
I mean, I'm completely satisfied with it on all realms and levels."
And that's generally the important thing. Thats what I think will shine
through the work too.
"And a lot of people are hearing it. And now it's in
the hands of the listeners, it's not mine anymore. And that's really cool,
I'm really pleased. It's sort of like, delightful that I'm hearing the
reactions when I hear a reaction. There have been a couple of young
european journalists who have been asking really really specific, very
well constructed, very involved questions. It's really terriffic because
they're picking up on things that are there in a way, but it's part of the
weave, you know?"
Yeah, part of just what comes together. Sure, one thing that I've heard
comments made on is that it's allmost like a cycle, because the first
album is 'If The World Should Fail To Fall Apart' and now this one is
'Dust'. So it's like a cycle; the world hasn't failed to fall apart.
"Disillusionment in the most positive sense, if you
like. The form is sort of gone. What's left is the essence, if you like."
Another thing I noticed is some names that seem to repeat throughout some
of your work. Like Dorian is one that I noticed is repeating, is there
anything to that?
 "Well the whole idea,
the whole metaphor of Dorian Grey. I think that is such a powerful
archtype. The idea of vanity and narcisism, the obsession of form over
content, over reality. So I like using names as kind of graphic pointers
to concepts in ways. But also, they can sort of stand for a very popular
sort of locatable symbol. They can be also at once, sort of accessible,
and taken on a level of just a name, you know? It's a very beautiful name
too, so it has this sort of an asthetic about it that has this setting of
places of mutifarious past, if you like.
I always like to think that my lyrics can be taken on a very surface
level, and enjoyed as just objects of writing. On a level of just style.
But there is a very sort of complete, and definate source and meaning if
you like. Which, I only know really. And that's something I like, because
I think people can really uncover layers and hopefully they can be true
for the listeners own imaginal world which is really what music is about.
And word, and the use of word.
So they can be complete pop songs like 'Scarlet Thing In You' or 'Cuts You
Up' on one level, but they're kind of these pop songs with lyrics that are
not pop at all really. Kind of like very truly alternative in that sense.
Kind of like really wacky actually. Kind of not and artist whos holding
any sort of any particular extremist alternative music flag at all. It's
like truly subversive in a benign sort of way, a very sort of subtle way."
Yeah, I've definately picked up a lot of phrases that are so delicately
placed I suppose, or maybe not even delicately, but...
"No, thats a lovely way to put it. I like that a
lot, very much so."
I mean to where the lyrics are so multi-interpretational, with so many
different angles to look at it.
"But I like to think that they are not obscure. I
think deep, and deeper, but less obscure."
Yeah, yeah. To where there are meanings apparent, but if you listen again
you can find other meanings as well. It's very interesting. It's a very
good approach to it.
"Thank you. You see, here I go getting all spooky
again, but that's your world. You see, that's you. That's you speaking.
Not me. Do you understand?"
Yeah, I do. I do. That's the interesting part about it.
"Kind of like, you know, removing yourself out of
the way of the Creator...with a big C. Do you understand? You know, dust.
I'm not there... but I am. I'm sort of, my action is crucial as an artist
that I am the tool, and not the hand. So that the audience owns it.
Because thats what a myth is, thats what an icon is actually. And you
know, the moment the icon thinks that he is that, that's his end. Then he
becomes like a parody and often a brilliant sort of post-modern muppet, if
you like, of himself. Which actually works, on one level, on a very
commercial level it can work very well. It can be kind of like a
subjective art piece in itself. But that's not the real deal, in a way."
I can see where the Dorian theme fits in there.
"Yeah. So there comes Dorian's mirror. And Dorian's
mirror we do not own." ::laughs::
Well, I've only probably scratched the surface because I've only been
listening to it for the last week or so.
"But, Darling, it's not necessary that you, it's not
like a PHD course. It's an album that you vibe off of or you don't. You
hear it once, you know, you've got a vibe off it. And whats the test of a
great record, is that in fifteen years you'll be able to vibe off it. So
it is rock and roll. In rock and roll, but not of it."
:::laughter all around:: That's a great way to put it.
So um, I don't know, our conversation is on such a light note that I hate
to touch upon this, but I want to so here goes. How have things been
effecting you lately as far as living in Turkey? I mean, you're a lot
closer to a part of the world that...
"Yeah. Well, it's affected me more being here [in
Montreal]. I mean the album was written, but we were recording when it all
happened. That was sort of the bursting of the pimple that was getting
bigger and bigger over the past years. With the name of Islam, and the
Middle Eastern Islamic culture, with the new sort of, what was maybe then,
before that point on Sept. 11, was kind of like 'the new enemy is Islam'
sort of concept. Where as, you know, Russia had been sort of disolute, or
neutralized, with now 'who is the next monster' and all that sort of
stuff.
So that was always very, with living in Turkey and being amongst Muslims
who are, in my experience, anthema, not representative of the world view
of them, or understanding of what I was in the midst of. But, so, I'm in a
rare position where I've got a very strong conversency with Islam from a
rare, very unseen Turkish quality, that actually when you look at the
Iranian manifestation, or the much more polarized Arab-esque forms, or
even the Farrakan-esque American forms, they all apear kind of like very
extreme...what's the word for it? I've got to be right about this, because
it's a very current issue... very sexual ego, and man generated. Where as
the heart of that whole matter is of coarse a very private spiritual
matter. But once that, like any spiritual form, once it becomes attempted,
projected into a socio-political expression it then becomes killed off, if
you like. It then becomes simply another political human expression,
divorced of it's meaning. I guess that's the most general way that I can
talk about it.
Of coarse when you see humans, nevermind that they are Muslims, these
people who are killing innocent people with suicide attacks, that's kind
of the antithesis of what a Muslim, or a religious person is. It's not
like the Buddhist monks who protest when they burn themselves. It's not
like that. It's an act of annihilation of others, which is completely not
Islamic actually.
But then, when you look deeper at that particular issue, you know, Israel
and Palestine, there's an occupied suppressed and oppressed group of
people there."
That seem to have just gotten to a breaking point...
"Yeah, it's an act of resistence, but it's a very
sort of hysterical act. Sure, I personally think that if an army, like the
Israli army is in my village and they're shooting at my village and my
mother gets killed with a bullet in her chest, and they're attacking me, I
have a complete and justifiable right to protect myself. Against the
actual army, but not individuals. Thats a right. But it's much more
complex at this point."
It is. Yes. It's very complex. That's why it's good to talk to somebody
that lives a little closer to it, at least.
"Definately. I mean, in Turkey there is a very
strong political consciousness of the dangers that lie around. We're
surrounded by Iran, Syria, Iraq, and they're all very aggressive against
our country, and they're Muslims, you know what I mean. But it's not all
so black and white as we might understand.
But what is really great about the Americans actually, is that from zero
knowledge, or a very naive understanding, since September 11th there is a
real effort to really understand the issue about what Islam is. So, in a
way, there is a very hopefull sort of aspect where the culture is going to
be looked at in a way that is less dogmatic."
Yeah, I'm hoping it's taking that direction.
"Well it has to. Otherwise we're fucked."
Yeah, yeah. Very true.
"Look at Palestine. I mean it's the same old cliche:
either you get on, or you fight. The fight is kind of the last option in
any conflicting conversation."
So has it been more difficult for you traveling at all?
"No. Actually, I do get stopped now when I'm coming
from Turkey of coarse, that's a red light. They ask me why, this that and
the other. But then I say, 'But my dear man, I'm Peter Murphy... I'm here
to perform.' Actually the other day, a Canadian chap from customs I think,
held me over and they put me through real nice. But, you know, then the
next guy came, customs guy, and said, 'So what's your name?'
'Peter Murphy.'
'What do you do? You work here a lot don't you?'
I said, 'Yes, I do. I really like it here.'
He said, 'Okay, what do you do?'
'Well, I'm sort of, I'm a musician.' slurring the word with my hand.
'What kind of music?'
'Oh, I don't know! I've got no idea how you define it.' It's kind of like
a whole interview started.
So he says, 'Wait on a minute sir, I need to check something. Are you
famous?'
I said, 'Well, I don't know. I think so. Am I or not? No, I don't know.
Well, I'm not Bono. And I'm not sort of Brittany Spears. But I'm more than
both of them my dear chap.'
You know, anyway. He asked me to hold on. And I'm there for about ten
minutes, and I can see him through the glass. He's not checking my ID at
the computer, he's asking his mates who Peter Murphy is. I swear.
'Theres this guy here, Peter Murphy, do you know what he's in? Oh, I've
got Bauhaus!'
He comes back, and he's as sweet as a pea, and said, 'Well thank you very
much. It's been nice meeting you. Where are you playing?'
So that's the sort of difficulty I have."
Well it's good that that's the extent of it, hunh?
"It's like Oscar Wilde when he was asked, 'Have you
got anything to declare?' He replied, 'No my man. Only my genius. Merely
my genius.' It's a classic."
::laughter:: Yeah, whats the tax on that one?
"Yeah, thats right. Well, the tax on Oscar Wilde's
genius may be said to be the two years in Redding jail."
Indeed. The prices we pay.
"But look at the work he did. 'The Ballad of Redding
Gold', 'De Profundis'.
Peter Murphy will be bringing his 'Dust' tour to Jacksonville at the
Marquee Theatre on June 7th. Be sure to not miss this performance one of
his best musical offerings to date. And for long-time fans, I'm sure we'll
hear at least a few tracks from his expansive back-catalog.
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