LAMB

The duo LAMB have impressed fans and audiences time and time again, and with the release of their latest disc "Between Darkness and Wonder" they will do it again. Despite massive press raves they have still found difficulty breaking into the top 40 smothered American music scene. With a sound too difficult to categorize and their US label out of business, they continued to work and released highly successful albums abroad, all the while remaining in relative obscurity in the states. This year they return to our shores courtesy of KOCH records. I spoke with Lou Rhodes, the soulful singer of LAMB about the new label, their undefinable style and the exciting possibility of a solo career for both her and her better musical half, Andy Barlow.


So what happened with that? The last time I heard you guys was really Fear of Fours?
Yeah, the thing was there was a big shake up internationally with our record company here and in Europe and in the states and I think Island Def Jam...everybody lost their jobs and new people came they changed their policy so that they decided they were going to concentrate on some urban music which I guess we don't fit into. I think basically it was though within the company that it wasn't the appropriate kind of label to put it out on in the states but I think it was also just the fact you know people change their jobs and everybody has their pet acts and you know some acts get kind of left by the wayside really and Lamb is a really difficult one in terms of where to put us.

You guys have kind of created your own genre.
Yeah, and a lot of people really struggle with that and find it really hard to know what to do with us really. We had some really lovely people working with us at Island Def Jam, the last time we came over we had a really supportive group of people there and then they all lost their jobs so...seems to be the way of the game, really.

So how has it been? You've been moving around trying to find stuff. When did you get on Koch?
Yeah, but that only came out the tail end of last year it had been out here about 18 months I think by the time it came out over there. You know, so it's kind of all a little bit mad. It took us that long. Our manager was just kind of running around trying to find an appropriate label for us. And also, obviously Island is linked with Universal. They wouldn't actually...the funny thing is...what majors are like...they won't let you go but they won't do anything with you either. So that was the scenario that we were in. If we'd been able to just go 'OK bye', I'm sure we'd have the pick of the crop of independent labels over there or whatever but because weren't allowed to do that it was really difficult. But that's all boring business stuff.

How long has [Between Darkness and Wonder] been out in the UK?
It came out in early November over here.

OK, so we're not too far behind on this one.
Yeah, we're catching up.

I think America's been doing that with the rest of the world for awhile.
Well, it's usually you're leading the way with it really, isn't it?

Not the music scene though...I don't know if I see it that way. Of course, a lot of the stuff I'm into comes over from Europe, the stuff that's born out of here I could almost care less about. So from my perspective, I guess it's a little skewed, I've always been into a little bit different music.
Well, there's a lot of good alternative stuff over there as well surely.

Yeah, there's some good stuff.
I guess it's just a different way of being, musically, isn't it?

Yeah, but I'll listen to the Pink Dots over an American rock band I guess...it's just a preference I guess. It depends. There are definitely some good stuff out of here but overall it's so stuck that 80s phase of boy bands and Britney Spears, American Idols...what are you going to do?
Yeah, we're completely saturated with that over here too...it's twisted.

Yeah, aren't they doing British Idol and German Idol?
Oh yeah, and the full works...I don't think anyone can do it like Americans can. We might try to do that but...when it comes to that kind of shame it just seems like only the Americans can...(laughs)

Ironically, one of the most popular people on that thing is a British guy.
Oh really, is it?

Simon [Cowell].
Oh...it's all a bit kind of lost really.

Well, it's a corporate mess. It's run by money.
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't really feature in the world of music except by label, or by name alone. It's not really about music, is it? It's just about marketing and money.

Yeah...numbers. Have you guys had to deal with a lot of that stuff in the industry, has that been a pain because you are such a hard band to put in a category or a niche...
Yeah, I guess it's become more and more of an issue over the years. I think we were just hopelessly naive when we first signed with a major record company...it was just like...'Great!'

Yeah, it must have been pretty quick...
We got to go off with nice mirrors and OK...it was just not true.

How long was it from when you started that you signed your first, it was '94 wasn't it?
No, '95 we signed a deal and '96 we broke up Lamb.

So it was just a year after you guys got together that you were signed?
Yeah, I think it was less than a year that we'd been together when we got signed. It was mad, you know, it was just all a bit...yeah, that was all really crazy...we'd only cut them like three song and it was just like, 'OK, you have a deal.' You know and so many bands kind of just sold your own for ages without getting any recognition, you know, so we were very...I think that's probably why we were so naive when we started out because we just fell into a record deal and it was almost too easy...and we've been paying ever since.

So your idea out of your whole deal with Mercury and all those guys was...and now are you just straight up with Koch?
Yeah, well we're actually out of that deal with Universal over the UK now as well...that was our last one with them I think...it's a time of reflection for them I think. Both Andy and I have decided we want to look at out solo stuff...we've both been waiting to do solo stuff and it feels like a good moment to do that.

So, are you guys not going to tour for The Darkness and Wonder over here?
Right now we don't know cause you see we've done a whole lot of touring on this side of the Atlantic...so it's all a big question mark at the moment because we both kind of throwing ourselves into independent projects.

Give me a little idea of what you're exploring, what are you thinking about doing solo-wise, you got any musicians in mind?
No musicians at the moment, I'm sort of downloading stuff, um...which is...I wouldn't want to give too much away...but...it's not Lamb. I guess it's a side of me that you've seen glimpses of in Lamb, but not seen the full extent of. I'm quite excited about that, about kind of pursing that, and doing an album of my songs...I'm sort of demo-ing that at the moment.

You've got some stuff written down already, you're just hitting it up to some musicians...
I've got a little tiny digital 4-track, so I've got some songs on that and it's kind of at the stage where it's time to make some more reasonable recordings of that and then decide where to go from there...so no musicians involved as yet. Some of the demos I've got so far...I've got me playing...and one of them I recorded while on tour in Australia, the only thing I could find to keep time with was a hotel waste bin...so that's the drum track at the moment is a plastic hotel waste bin. So, yeah, I think it's going to be very lo-fi, but not that lo-fi.

Most people say writing on the road isn't very inspiring because all they get to see is hotel rooms and tour buses but I guess that's a little different with you.
Well, I had a whole world going on inside, you see, that's why it doesn't matter where I am, if the songs are going to come, they're going to come, you know? And in a way, kind of being on the road, you get to be very reflective, and that's a good space to be in for me writing songs, and I'm a mother of two children so quite often it's difficult to find that space at home... although i have managed...I've got myself a little studio at the top of my house now...in fact, it's my art studio as well, kind of getting into a lot of painting and stuff. I was just looking at a self portrait I did in charcoal and it was quite frightening... it was kind of like, do I look like that? I don't know... Obviously that's what I look like to me...it says a lot about the internal workings of my mind.

Self-portraits always do...stay away from them...
I look like, kind of...Golem...with hair...

Did you go see all those movies?
L: Yeah, I've seen two of them on video because my eldest son really loves them, actually that's a lie because I like them as well, it's a good excuse to kind of have kid to watch them with...

Do you have a boy and a girl...or boy/boy?
Two boys.

How old are they now?
L: Ruben is six and Soloman is two and a half, they're brilliant, they're just so funny...they're like little philosophers...the stuff they come up with is just brilliant...

Well, they have a very interesting mother then...
They don't think me interesting, actually...

I'd love to see some of your art sometime, you should put it up online if you get a chance.
Yeah, I'm not at that stage yet...

Sort of dabbling in it?
I'm doing it as a part time fine art course...

Did you do any visual stuff before you took up the Lamb project?
Yeah, I was a photographer before Lamb. In fact the photos on the cover are a kind of joint project that me and my husband did...

For the new one?
For the new one, for Between Darkness and Wonder...I hadn't done any photography for a long time and it was kind of like, aw, fuck it...I liked this idea for the cover and I couldn't find anybody to do it and my manager just went, what are you doing...why are we spending all this time trying to find someone to do this, you can just do it yourself...

You have your own darkroom or anything?
Not anymore...no, I used to have one when i was kind of working professionally and I was living in Manchester at the time, but no I don't, we don't really have the space for it... and to be honest, it's so time consuming to do black and white printing...I drive an [eight minute] block to good black and white printer if ever I need anything...I'd rather just take it to him... he's a big German guy with a big beard...

Yeah, my darkroom is collecting dust right now...
Oh really, you've got one as well?

Yeah, I've got one set up in my house but it's collecting dust, I haven't been able to keep up with keeping it all together and clean...
I think it takes a certain personality to want to spend that much time in the dark...

I don't have much problem with that, actually - I do a lot of nightclub promotion so I'm always in smoke-filled dark rooms...so chemical filled darks rooms aren't much different.
I just remember long hours where I used to do live stuff for the NME and because I was in Manchester I'd have to send it, they'd want it the next day and then I'd have to work all through the night printing... so it's sort of unhappy memories of working under pressure...

Yeah, I always did it for myself so that was better...
There's nothing more exciting than seeing the negative for the first time, there's that sense of mystery that digital cameras have wiped out...

Watching that print come up under the water...
Or you get a blank roll out of your camera...

My hardest thing was always trying to get the film on those metal reels to develop them...what if they're touching...I can't believe it's been six years since you're first hit, seems like along time ago. I booked and kind of became friends with BT, and he said he knew you and I remember when he told me you were pregnant...
I've been trying to remember whether I was actually in the early stages of the pregnancy that I saw you, one of the American tours, we'd done two tours, one was with Gus Gus and one was on our own...

We saw you on the first show you did with Gus Gus at the Supper Club...
That's right... the tour we did after that was the one we did on our own and I was in the early stages of pregnancy and i hadn't told anybody and I was just horribly sick and everytime I got into the tour bus I wanted to throw up...sweaty guys, beer and fags...it was quite a tough tour actually...

But worth it nonetheless?
The states are just an amazing place to explore...it's a great diversity from state to state..it always amazes me...

It's an interesting place...did you get to tour for Fear of Force?
I'm not sure whether that was there... when you saw us had we brought up Fear of Force?

When I saw you it was the very first, it was for Lamb...
Thank God, we hadn't any songs then!

You pulled off a great show, though...
L: God, it's all blurry for me, but I thought, the second tour we had songs from [Fear of Force] as well, I maybe wrong, because I remember those early days when we just had the one album it was just like, oh God, can we scrape together 25 minutes and now it's like, shit we've got to loose some songs to keep it to an hour and a half, and then people still complaining you didn't do such n' such...

Can't please everybody all the time...
No, that's right.

So, do you actually have any ground work laid on when you want to have your solo stuff out?
No, not really, it's definitely in the early stage and the conversations I've had with my manager...we want to do something that is very uncomplicated..so we were talking in terms of getting some musicians together and recording it in a week, just having it be really about the moment, in a way...

Sort of jam session-ish?
To be honest, a lot of it is just going to be me and a guitar, no not a lot of it, but some of it and some of it can just be me and...the whole point for me is for it to be very minimal...

Do you play guitar?
Very badly... I'm working on that...I don't think I'll ever get to the stage of calling myself a guitarist… I just do it enough to accompany myself and singing and playing guitar together is quite a challenge... I'm laying down these demos sort of doing each separately... but there will come a time... I'm actually playing on stage with this one song on the album which I play guitar on live, which was quite nerve-racking to begin with...just getting my head around...I shouldn't even be playing live on stage...but it's getting a bit more, so I can relax...

You said with the solo stuff that you wanted to do something kind of uncomplicated, do you find doing Lamb sort of complicated?
Maybe complex is a better word to use, i think there is real complexity about a lot of Lamb's music and I think that's why people find it difficult to kind of understand... it takes a certain person to persevere with Lamb, it's not something that's so accessible that you go, you I get that, and I think that's part of the attraction as well, at least reading between the lines from things that people say, it's like winning someone's love, if you kind of have to struggle a bit it's so much more worthwhile...there's sort of orchestration of Lamb's songs, it's quite grandiose at times, when you listen to songs like [The rescue and bonfire] it's like this incredible...they're really big songs... they are amazing to be a part of but I guess what I'm feeling for a solo album is much more up close and personal with less stuff around it... I want to do all the album myself and all the photos and all the videos, homegrown...that's the idea. It's really easy when you get involved...Lamb's been in existence for nine years and with a major record company it's amazing how much stuff, even though we've kind of tried to keep control, feels like it slips away from you...so I guess the attraction for me in having a solo project is it's something that's very much in my pocket... if you know what I mean...

Can you give me an example of some of the stuff you think slipped away while dealing with a label like that?
It's really difficult...stuff like video...once a record company puts money behind something, they have a say...and it can say, no you can't make that video because we're paying...or we want you to use this photographer, because we're paying. We fought tooth and nail but there's been instances where we've wanted to do...I can think of one instance in particular was a video we wanted to make for Gabriel and it was just an amazing treatment but because it was an unknown director, they just didn't want to know...and it would have been such a brilliant film. I know from the pit of my stomach that it would have been an amazing video that would almost stand on its own because the storyboard was so strong...but yet record companies think in commercial terms and they want a known director and they want something that's MTV friendly... Lamb and MTV friendly don't go together but...they still want it... I think that one of the problems is they've been trying to fit us into a round hole for so long and we're most definitely a very angular square peg... I think it's that our relationship with them has come to a kind of natural end...and who knows from here on in...

I'm sure it is hard to market. We do what we've ended up calling a dark alternative night every Saturday um...which is sort of goth, industrial, future pop stuff and we play your music on Saturday nights...
With goth music?

Yeah, it goes over really well...we try to call it more dark alternative more so than goth cause it's not all vampires...
Yeah...our music...sometimes I listen to it and I just think, wow, you know, where did that come from...it still does quite surprise me sometimes...I just think no wonder people find this hard to get cause it's just...you know you listen to a Lamb album and you think, wow this is all on the same album...it's quite an anomaly in a way...

That's why I was kind of listening to [Sun] right then and thought hmmm...this is so different and the rest of the album is kind of...darkness...then there's this big bright spot...it's a beautiful flow though...the whole album in its entirety is excellent.
Yeah, one of our thoughts on the album was there's a kind of completeness about it... it was kind of...I take particular pride in this album and we can kind of take a deep breath and go OK, we've done an album that we're really, really pleased with and that's kind of where we've come to and it just gives us a kind of feeling of space about what happens next...

I can see that...feeling a sense of accomplishment so now you're ready to explore a couple of different paths before doing something else...that's the best way to get some more inspiration too, kind of take a breather, get that extra inspiration and bring it back to the collective...
The thing I kind of like about the album is that it works as an album, it's kind of a journey and that felt like an achievement as well, because there is such diversity in our music lots of times that it did feel that this was more cohesive, I guess that a lot of our other...

And in the bios you somewhat attribute that to Andy being in a relationship?
It has definitely made a difference.

Is this the first time he's ever been in serious relationship he's been in since you started? Not to get too much into his personal business...
No, he's been in quite intense relationships before, but this is the big one, he's getting married...so that is a huge leap for him to go 'Okay, this is it now,' not just wait and see, this is the woman for me to spend my life with. That made a huge difference for him, and also, the person he's with, she's just an amazing human being and she just doesn't take any shit...so I think it's been a real learning process for him as well... Andy's always been a kind of Peter Pan, kind of the eternal boy, and there's something about this relationship that is making him have to sort of stand up and be a man and that's sort a big deal...

That sort of growing up has been translated into the album as well...
I guess he's kind of found a place in his heart that maybe he wasn't aware of before and I think that's opened him up to everything in a different way and I think the way he listens to music has changed because he used to hate vocal based music...

That must have been difficult...
Yeah, well that's been the basis of our relationship...the vocals were kind of another instrument...where we were like..oh god...OK...that's enough vocals now... we've always kind of had quite a battle to be heard from my point of view...so this album...the difference is quite amazing, he began sort of turning the vocals up instead of down and that surprised me a lot of the time, it's been an amazing learning process, all four albums, and I guess I can't remember the details of the other ones you know, every time you do a knew album you're just kind of like...yeah, we're through with that...

It's the main focus, it's in the spotlight... What do you think is the biggest lesson you've learned or the biggest thing you've learned...in doing Lamb, all around?
Oh God... I don't know! I think there's something about...I don't know how to put it to words...but one of the things that has really amazed me is just how something that started out in kind of a basement in Manchester with a old analog four-track and now we have these emails from around the world of people saying we played "The Rescue" at our wedding or at a friend's funeral and that [the albums] have helped them get through a really tough time in their life and it's that I would have never envisioned that, if you know what I mean...the idea that our music and our songs get into people in that way...it's quite...I don't really have the words to describe what that's taught me...but it's quite an amazing thing to experience...

That is amazing... Is there a possible e-mail address I could send you some stuff...
Yeah...fantastic...do you take photos professionally as well?

Yeah I started the magazine in 1992 so it's been a long road for me as well.... I was so happy I got to see you guys up in New York, I did get some really good pictures of that...
Oh really...all that time ago...my god...are those on one of your sites?

Yeah, I'll be uploading more...I'm actually still going through all my photos...
I bet I'll be going...oh my god...what was I wearing?!

You guys were so kind to us when we were up, I know everybody that was there appreciated it, we talked about it the whole way back to Jacksonville...
I don't think you could expect anything else when you've driven all that way...

Yeah, we may have just been delirious... it was a great deal of fun...I do hope I get to see you again...solo or as a duo...
I'm sure we'll make it over there at some stage...I can't really say there's any definite plans right now... It's been so long waiting for stuff to come out there...

I know...I was so excited when I got this album I took it to the club the next Saturday and as soon as I walked in the door I wanted to hear it on the big sound system while we got ready...
How did it sound on the big system?

Oh it sounded great!